Friday, November 03, 2006
Men Are Losers, No Matter What
Last Sunday, DrHelen posted about a Dr Phil show in which a man didn't want to pay child support for a child he fathered by a woman who told him she couldn't conceive. The post created quite a debate concerning men's rights versus women's rights, choices regarding parenthood and the like. Currently, all the choice past the decision to have sexual intercourse lie in the hands of the female.
I've advocated that men have similar rights as women. Instead of forcing abortion, allow men to disavow parenthood within a limited time frame beginning when first aware of the pregnancy or the child's existence. Enable men to collect repayment and other damages when fraudulently led to believe a child is theirs. Pass legislation protecting sperm donors from paying child support. Protect male victims of under age rape by an adult female from ever having to pay child support for a child conceived under such circumstances.
Presently, men a being forced to support children that aren't theirs. Sometimes they even pay child support for a child that doesn't and never did exist. Some women think sperm donors should pay child support. One woman tried to have a child using frozen embryo created by her and her now divorced husband who would have to pay child support.
Men are generally told "if they don't like it, just keep it in their pants." Hmm, wonder how this approach would work with women.
In response to DrHelen's post, Dr. Melissa Clouthier wrote a post on her blog. Dr. Melissa makes some excellent points.
Dr. Melissa arrives at a less than flattering conclusion concerning men.
Fighting for equality, freedom and justice traditionally ranks upon the most noble of pursuits. Did I miss something somewhere?
I've advocated that men have similar rights as women. Instead of forcing abortion, allow men to disavow parenthood within a limited time frame beginning when first aware of the pregnancy or the child's existence. Enable men to collect repayment and other damages when fraudulently led to believe a child is theirs. Pass legislation protecting sperm donors from paying child support. Protect male victims of under age rape by an adult female from ever having to pay child support for a child conceived under such circumstances.
Presently, men a being forced to support children that aren't theirs. Sometimes they even pay child support for a child that doesn't and never did exist. Some women think sperm donors should pay child support. One woman tried to have a child using frozen embryo created by her and her now divorced husband who would have to pay child support.
Men are generally told "if they don't like it, just keep it in their pants." Hmm, wonder how this approach would work with women.
In response to DrHelen's post, Dr. Melissa Clouthier wrote a post on her blog. Dr. Melissa makes some excellent points.
IT'S ABOUT THE CHILDREN, PEOPLE! Our society is filled with such selfish, self-absorbed, indulgent adults that all they can think about is their own gratification and getting away with it with no obligation.Just a few weeks ago, I wrote a post that touched on the same subject. In an update Dr. Melissa also writes:
Well, I'm for restricting everyone's reproductive rights--including women's. I believe abortion-rights have denigrated a woman's place in society. I believe that women have been the second biggest losers due to abortion. Ultimately, children have lost the most--their lives.I agree. One of the ironies of feminism, which greatly protests women being treated as sex objects, is that women are now more of a sex object than before the birth of feminism. With the availability of birth control, abortion, etc., men using women and women using men for pleasure without commitment occurs commonly. Yet feminists and politicians continue to preach about abortion being a woman's inherit "right."
Dr. Melissa arrives at a less than flattering conclusion concerning men.
Men are the new victims. Welcome, men, to the horde of pathetic losers claiming their life is ruined by someone else. Wallow along with the rest of us, will you? Isn't that nice? Dr. Helen thinks men should unite and fight for their rights. It's already happening. And it is crazy. In this men's movement, no thought is given to the children. Oh, yeah! Them....Here I disagree. A "pathetic loser" is someone who quits fighting and gives up. A pathetic loser just lies there and takes it. Maybe Dr. Melissa belongs to that seemingly ever increasing body of women who think that a man's only purpose in life is to serve them. And if you don't serve them well enough, they get your house, your furniture, your kids and much of your money.
Fighting for equality, freedom and justice traditionally ranks upon the most noble of pursuits. Did I miss something somewhere?
Comments:
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i have been posting on that topic on dr helens.. the onus seems to be more on the man even though women have more technology..
i personally abhor the need for abortions, but i know that choice has to be there. but prevention should be the key. if women and men, could have more access to contraception then abortions would drop like a stone..
is that preferable.. yes..
we are having the same argument on the childfree
board. http://www.refugees.bratfree.com/read.php?2,13903
men and women both have the responsbility to not have kids if they so choose.. but i am totally pro choice, i know accidents happen, and i support 100% the right for the woman to choose. but with better education better access, then there wouldnt be the need for so many abortions.
isnt that what should be done, these people complain its "destroying life", if and thats a big IF, it is then shouldnt the stuff that stops it be preferable to abortion..
i personally abhor the need for abortions, but i know that choice has to be there. but prevention should be the key. if women and men, could have more access to contraception then abortions would drop like a stone..
is that preferable.. yes..
we are having the same argument on the childfree
board. http://www.refugees.bratfree.com/read.php?2,13903
men and women both have the responsbility to not have kids if they so choose.. but i am totally pro choice, i know accidents happen, and i support 100% the right for the woman to choose. but with better education better access, then there wouldnt be the need for so many abortions.
isnt that what should be done, these people complain its "destroying life", if and thats a big IF, it is then shouldnt the stuff that stops it be preferable to abortion..
Again, I have to agree with everything being said in your post. The feminist movement took things too far and women are now more of sex objects now more than ever.
Men should have the right to decide whether or not they want to be fathers.
Lindsey
Men should have the right to decide whether or not they want to be fathers.
Lindsey
One hopeful sign was that some of the women on the comment thread were able to debate honestly and ratioanlly, rather than resorting to ball-cutting tactics and fits of recriminations, but there is still too little understanding of how women are priveleged by the law in general and especially when it comes to children
"...I've advocated that men have similar rights as women..."
Well how the heck can that happen when nature has already decreed that women be the sole bearers of life????
We are the ones with all the natural BURDEN. Men get burdened through the law, a totally social construct which can be changed at anytime to release them...
When you figure out how to work around nature THEN you can talk to me about 'similar rights. Until then mothers are the ones with the first and last word on children.
Well how the heck can that happen when nature has already decreed that women be the sole bearers of life????
We are the ones with all the natural BURDEN. Men get burdened through the law, a totally social construct which can be changed at anytime to release them...
When you figure out how to work around nature THEN you can talk to me about 'similar rights. Until then mothers are the ones with the first and last word on children.
BTW, women do NOT go to the trouble of using sperm donors in order to give some man they don't even know rights to their children in some weird child support fraud. Becoming pregnant in this manner is expensive, can be painful and time consuming. Not too mention that it's not covered by most health plans, so must be paid for solely from your own funds.
Now do you seriously believe that women are doing this in order to give a man rights to their children so they can collect child support??? You obviously have a very unrealistic view of what is going on out there today. Giving a man rights to the children conceived using a sperm donor would negate the entire purpose of why they went the sperm donor route in the first place.
The women who are doing this are generally educated, older, professional women, the so-called 'cream of the crop' of our society...If you were thinking clearly you would see that they are using sperm donations in order to NOT give ANY men ANY RIGHTS to their children. They are not looking for child support but in fact, are trying to get around the laws that give even a recreational sperm donor the title of father and allow them rights.
The women who pull these child-support fraud schemes are generally not drawn from the same pool as the ones who have children via sperm donations.
Let's use our heads here...two totally differing pools of women involved...
Now do you seriously believe that women are doing this in order to give a man rights to their children so they can collect child support??? You obviously have a very unrealistic view of what is going on out there today. Giving a man rights to the children conceived using a sperm donor would negate the entire purpose of why they went the sperm donor route in the first place.
The women who are doing this are generally educated, older, professional women, the so-called 'cream of the crop' of our society...If you were thinking clearly you would see that they are using sperm donations in order to NOT give ANY men ANY RIGHTS to their children. They are not looking for child support but in fact, are trying to get around the laws that give even a recreational sperm donor the title of father and allow them rights.
The women who pull these child-support fraud schemes are generally not drawn from the same pool as the ones who have children via sperm donations.
Let's use our heads here...two totally differing pools of women involved...
"...how women are privileged by the law in general especially when it comes to children."
It is not the LAW that privileges women but God, evolution, nature that has privileged us. Take your pick...
The law is a total social construct which actually takes away natural rights from women regarding their children and assigned those rights to others...
If you wish to argue women's privilege take it up with your deity...The law has nothing to do with it. Actually the law was put in place by men to favor men and it does...
It is not the LAW that privileges women but God, evolution, nature that has privileged us. Take your pick...
The law is a total social construct which actually takes away natural rights from women regarding their children and assigned those rights to others...
If you wish to argue women's privilege take it up with your deity...The law has nothing to do with it. Actually the law was put in place by men to favor men and it does...
Last point: I agree with every one of your changes to the law but let's add one other. That no men be allowed to go to court to get their names placed on a birth certificate w/o the permission of the mothers. If she doesn't agree, you're just out of luck...
Thus we can end this business of a recreational sperm donor showing up at the hospital immediately after birth and suddenly trying to claim to be a father...Married men only would continue the privilege of having their names placed on their offspring's birth certificates. No other men can do it, unless mother volunarily agrees...
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Thus we can end this business of a recreational sperm donor showing up at the hospital immediately after birth and suddenly trying to claim to be a father...Married men only would continue the privilege of having their names placed on their offspring's birth certificates. No other men can do it, unless mother volunarily agrees...
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