Tuesday, December 26, 2006
Problems with Schools
Don't Need School Solutions
During a town hall meeting in Buffalo originally aired Dec. 7, 2006, Lou Dobbs and others discussed the role of schools in the success of Buffalo as a city. A audience member brought up the high number of students being labeled learning disables, the high drop out rate and other problems he saw with the school system.
James Williams, Superintendent of Buffalo Schools had this to say in reply,
I graduated high school in 1969 and it seems to always be today's students are unfavorably compared to those of my generation. Maybe some structural changes are needed as society and kids have changed in the last 50 years, but, again, Mr. Williams "solution" is far from the best direction. We don't need more school; we need better school.
Mr. Williams response is a typical governmental bureaucrat response.
You need more of us.
But, you're the problem.
Precisely, that's why you need more of us.
Isn't this like "If the only tool you have is a hammer...?"
Yes. That's why you need more of us. We are the hammer.
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again but expecting a different result.
We don't need a longer school day and we don't need a longer school year. Kids would be so sick of school the drop out rate would rise and they would be less likely to pursue higher education.
We need more stimulating classes and better teaching techniques. We need more classroom involvement from parents, business people, and other community members. Most learning occurs outside of school. Having a longer school year and longer school days would interfere with the outside of school learning, which may be more important and more effective than much of the in-school learning.
I remember reading an article in a parenting magazine when my now 18 year old son was an infant. The article pointed out that toddlers that followed their parents around and communicated with their parents during ordinary day-to-day activities performed better on measure of earlier childhood intelligence that toddlers whose parents used more formal learning methods such as flash cards of animals, etc.
As students enters higher educational levels, they spend less time in the classroom, graduate students less than undergraduates, undergraduates less than high school students, and high school/middle school students less than elementary students. Obviously, more classroom time and longer days are not necessary for higher learning to take place. The performance of home schooled students, who may have little or no traditional classroom time, points to the same conclusion. Classroom time is not critical.
In my own experience, I've explained and taught my kids many math and science concepts in 5 or 10 minutes that, apparently, the teacher couldn't adequately teach in an hour. Perhaps, much of the problem facing schools is what goes on outside of school, not inside.
With the tremendous growth in single parent families, fewer parents have adequate time to help with homework and school projects. Also, with only one parent, parental resources are halved. The father may be able to help with subject areas in which the mother is not fluent and vice versa. But I doubt that both parents are easily accessible in most single parent families thus depriving children of half of their parental resources. Here is an article on the importance of father's involvement in education.
School choice also provides potential to create improvements in schools. Competition drives athletes and businesses to new heights of performance every day, why not schools. Mostly because school systems are scared to death of having to perform well enough to attract and keep students. Private schools only provide a competitive alternative where they are available and to those who can afford them.
My oldest son attends a Catholic high school which claims to be the cheapest Catholic high school in the country. I do know that it is 50% to 70% cheaper than the Catholic high schools in Cincinnati. It is still more expensive than what an in-state college student pays at the University of Tennessee.
The obvious answer here is vouchers. This exchange displays the public school attitude towards school choice
But school choice has much opposition. Some oppose supposed government support of religion, most private schools are religious. Some believe, as commenter Mercurior said the other day, "the government doesnt want people to think for themselves, that they want them to obey the state.." For the most part, I have to agree. But, mostly, public school systems and their teachers are scared to death of going out of business. They know they deliver an inferior product and don't want to be further exposed.
I'll have some proposals on what schools can do soon. One thing we can be sure of is that effective solutions to school problems are not likely to come from within the established educational minds such as Mr. Williams. They are the same people who go us here in the first place.
James Williams, Superintendent of Buffalo Schools had this to say in reply,
"Well, one problem in this country, education is structurally flawed. Until we change the structure of public education, we're not going to make progress.Often the comparison we make when discussing school problems is between present day schools and schools of the 1950s and 60s and now. The performance of students from those eras is often used as the measuring stick for today. If this is a "structural" problem, why was the "structure" successful then and not now?
The school system is operating the same way today as they operated when I finished school in 1962. We start school at 8:00, we get out at 3:00. We have first period, second period, third period, etc. We didn't change the structure. We need a longer school day, longer school year."
I graduated high school in 1969 and it seems to always be today's students are unfavorably compared to those of my generation. Maybe some structural changes are needed as society and kids have changed in the last 50 years, but, again, Mr. Williams "solution" is far from the best direction. We don't need more school; we need better school.
Mr. Williams response is a typical governmental bureaucrat response.
You need more of us.
But, you're the problem.
Precisely, that's why you need more of us.
Isn't this like "If the only tool you have is a hammer...?"
Yes. That's why you need more of us. We are the hammer.
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again but expecting a different result.
We don't need a longer school day and we don't need a longer school year. Kids would be so sick of school the drop out rate would rise and they would be less likely to pursue higher education.
We need more stimulating classes and better teaching techniques. We need more classroom involvement from parents, business people, and other community members. Most learning occurs outside of school. Having a longer school year and longer school days would interfere with the outside of school learning, which may be more important and more effective than much of the in-school learning.
I remember reading an article in a parenting magazine when my now 18 year old son was an infant. The article pointed out that toddlers that followed their parents around and communicated with their parents during ordinary day-to-day activities performed better on measure of earlier childhood intelligence that toddlers whose parents used more formal learning methods such as flash cards of animals, etc.
As students enters higher educational levels, they spend less time in the classroom, graduate students less than undergraduates, undergraduates less than high school students, and high school/middle school students less than elementary students. Obviously, more classroom time and longer days are not necessary for higher learning to take place. The performance of home schooled students, who may have little or no traditional classroom time, points to the same conclusion. Classroom time is not critical.
In my own experience, I've explained and taught my kids many math and science concepts in 5 or 10 minutes that, apparently, the teacher couldn't adequately teach in an hour. Perhaps, much of the problem facing schools is what goes on outside of school, not inside.
With the tremendous growth in single parent families, fewer parents have adequate time to help with homework and school projects. Also, with only one parent, parental resources are halved. The father may be able to help with subject areas in which the mother is not fluent and vice versa. But I doubt that both parents are easily accessible in most single parent families thus depriving children of half of their parental resources. Here is an article on the importance of father's involvement in education.
School choice also provides potential to create improvements in schools. Competition drives athletes and businesses to new heights of performance every day, why not schools. Mostly because school systems are scared to death of having to perform well enough to attract and keep students. Private schools only provide a competitive alternative where they are available and to those who can afford them.
My oldest son attends a Catholic high school which claims to be the cheapest Catholic high school in the country. I do know that it is 50% to 70% cheaper than the Catholic high schools in Cincinnati. It is still more expensive than what an in-state college student pays at the University of Tennessee.
The obvious answer here is vouchers. This exchange displays the public school attitude towards school choice
QUESTION: Yes. Actually, what I'm going to ask, given what you've heard tonight is going to seem crazy, but in the coming weeks, they are going to announce in Buffalo that a number of schools are closing with excellent test scores because of the enrollment. They're private Catholic schools. What can we do to...Mr. Williams says, "I like the competition." and "the great thing about America is choice,..." But he tiptoes around the voucher issue like a ballerina. I'm sure he loves choice and competition as long as that choice is no threat to him and his bureaucracy. Like virtually every other public educator, he is scared to death of vouchers. Once parents have real choices, you can bet the farm on what will happen and Mr. Williams and most other public school superintendents won't be too happy.
DOBBS: Why are they closing?
QUESTION: Because enrollment is low and too few people can afford that education. What can we do in the community to get past this special interest so that the money follows the kids to the education choice that's best for them?
DOBBS: Superintendent Williams?
WILLIAMS: Did he say Catholic schools?
DOBBS: He did.
WILLIAMS: Oh, well, we're developing better public schools, so I like the competition. When I came here we had 15 charter schools -- and I believe in competing. And to compete, you have to have rigorous curriculum. You have to hold people accountable and you have to have quality teachers, and we're working on those things.
But we are competing to -- this year, we have got 1,200 additional ...
DOBBS: I'm not hearing a lot of sympathy from the superintendent about those Catholic schools.
It's one -- you know, I happen to be a great fan -- the great thing about America is choice, but I happen to be a fan of public education. It changed my life. I come from a working class family. I would never -- I can tell you six public school teachers turned my entire life in a different direction. That's something I think we ought to have for every kid.
For those who can benefit from a parochial education, private schools, God bless, but let's invest in our public schools, because that is our future.
But school choice has much opposition. Some oppose supposed government support of religion, most private schools are religious. Some believe, as commenter Mercurior said the other day, "the government doesnt want people to think for themselves, that they want them to obey the state.." For the most part, I have to agree. But, mostly, public school systems and their teachers are scared to death of going out of business. They know they deliver an inferior product and don't want to be further exposed.
I'll have some proposals on what schools can do soon. One thing we can be sure of is that effective solutions to school problems are not likely to come from within the established educational minds such as Mr. Williams. They are the same people who go us here in the first place.
Comments:
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if only they would let teachers teach, rather than quote useless, irrelevant "facts", a lot of the studying in american and uk schools at the moment are for the SAT's something i have had doubts about, it doesnt teach critical thought, it just teaches regurgitation of facts.
ooh thanks for quoting me.. ;-)..
the best teacher i ever had was a chemistry teacher, he let you study at your own pace and made it fun.. of course i blew up the lab.. but .. that was fun too in its own way (the lab tech gave me the wrong stuff)..
ooh thanks for quoting me.. ;-)..
the best teacher i ever had was a chemistry teacher, he let you study at your own pace and made it fun.. of course i blew up the lab.. but .. that was fun too in its own way (the lab tech gave me the wrong stuff)..
DADvocate, as you have so eloquently stated, Mr. Williams is part of the problem, not a part of the solution. The structure today is as it was when I went to school in the 50's and 60's (graduating in 64 - my daughter swears to her friends that I rode a brontosaurus to school). The structure is not the problem. Teachers and parents and are the problem. Teachers no longer teach except to "teach to the standardized test" and my daughter (a gifted teacher by the way, once nominated for teacher of the year and once elected such) gets quite angry at her fellow teachers who do this.
As she says, if you teach the subject matter and teach it so that kids are encouraged to learn and parents are encouraged to be active in their child's education, the test scores will take care of themselves. That was the way my grandmother taught, my mother taught, my sister taught and my daughter teaches. That is the solution. Not more money, not more teachers in unions, not longer school days and for sure not some "professional educator" posting "Welcome Back To School Dayz" in the classroom.
Great post, keep it up.
As she says, if you teach the subject matter and teach it so that kids are encouraged to learn and parents are encouraged to be active in their child's education, the test scores will take care of themselves. That was the way my grandmother taught, my mother taught, my sister taught and my daughter teaches. That is the solution. Not more money, not more teachers in unions, not longer school days and for sure not some "professional educator" posting "Welcome Back To School Dayz" in the classroom.
Great post, keep it up.
GM-
I'm impressed with your daughter's performence. We had the "Teacher of the Year" for Kentucky out our high school about 6 or 7 years ago. How did he do it? His physics class built a rowing scull to demonstrate certain principles.
As Mercurior says, no mere teaching of "facts" here nor just teaching the test. My kids' schools actually set aside time to "prepare" for the test. It works, too. The schools have gone from way down the list to the top 10%.
To be fair, I do think these schools (Mason County, Kentucky) have improved. Stricter behavioral codes have made the greatest difference. But in reference to Mr. Williams longer school years and longer school days, Mason County schools recently rejected this idea. And they're doing pretty well although there is still plenty of room for improvement.
I'm impressed with your daughter's performence. We had the "Teacher of the Year" for Kentucky out our high school about 6 or 7 years ago. How did he do it? His physics class built a rowing scull to demonstrate certain principles.
As Mercurior says, no mere teaching of "facts" here nor just teaching the test. My kids' schools actually set aside time to "prepare" for the test. It works, too. The schools have gone from way down the list to the top 10%.
To be fair, I do think these schools (Mason County, Kentucky) have improved. Stricter behavioral codes have made the greatest difference. But in reference to Mr. Williams longer school years and longer school days, Mason County schools recently rejected this idea. And they're doing pretty well although there is still plenty of room for improvement.
Doh. I had a rather large comment here, but blogger/my computer ate the thing. -Must copy and paste before clicking 'publish'...-
You see, I absolutely agree with the Superintendent that schools are structured incorrectly. But I also absolutely agree with you DADvocate, that its what schools do with their time as opposed to how much time is spent.
Here's some things I'd like to see change with the structure of schools:
1. School Damn Uniforms. Make kids demonstrate creativity and individualism with their work and minds instead of their t shirts and we're moving in the right direction.
2. Continuous school year, same number of school days. Split up the time off to make things easier during the year and get rid of the two month downtime in the summer. Month of July off. Three weeks in December, one week in January off. Easter week off. Memorial Day week off. Labor day week off. Thanksgiving week off. Haloween week off. More three day weekends. Etc etc.
3. 9-5 school days. Latchkey mentality wreaked such havoc on my generation, we won't truly know the affects until my grandkids are in school. It is because the structure of society changed, and schools didn't leaving kids unattended and unsupervised between the hours of 3 pm and 6 pm.
4. Real discipline. Fighting, drinking, vandalizing school? You don't get sent to in-school or suspended, you get to clean toilets, take out the trash and repaint the walls.
5. More neighborhood schools, especially elementary schools. Parents should be able to walk their kids to school.
6. Work study programs for juniors and seniors, community service for 7th - 10th grades, playtime for K-6th graders.
7. Replace No Tolerance policies with Common Sense policies. If you're sending the valedictorian home for having a swiss army knife, but aren't able to confiscate troublemaker's valium because he's skipping class, and the principal's hands are tied on the difference, Houston we have a problem.
8. More advanced students help teach less advanced students. My senior class spent 45 minutes getting our in house school work done each school day, and spent the rest of the time engaged in large projects or goofing off. We could have taught English, History, Science or Math to 9th-6th graders no problem, or helped some other teacher do it. We would have done it for minimum wage, an easy "A", college level credit, an off campus pass for lunch, or a half day on Fridays. All such rewards for such behavior would have put competent teachers assistants in classrooms where we were needed at a fraction of the cost for the benefit provided.
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You see, I absolutely agree with the Superintendent that schools are structured incorrectly. But I also absolutely agree with you DADvocate, that its what schools do with their time as opposed to how much time is spent.
Here's some things I'd like to see change with the structure of schools:
1. School Damn Uniforms. Make kids demonstrate creativity and individualism with their work and minds instead of their t shirts and we're moving in the right direction.
2. Continuous school year, same number of school days. Split up the time off to make things easier during the year and get rid of the two month downtime in the summer. Month of July off. Three weeks in December, one week in January off. Easter week off. Memorial Day week off. Labor day week off. Thanksgiving week off. Haloween week off. More three day weekends. Etc etc.
3. 9-5 school days. Latchkey mentality wreaked such havoc on my generation, we won't truly know the affects until my grandkids are in school. It is because the structure of society changed, and schools didn't leaving kids unattended and unsupervised between the hours of 3 pm and 6 pm.
4. Real discipline. Fighting, drinking, vandalizing school? You don't get sent to in-school or suspended, you get to clean toilets, take out the trash and repaint the walls.
5. More neighborhood schools, especially elementary schools. Parents should be able to walk their kids to school.
6. Work study programs for juniors and seniors, community service for 7th - 10th grades, playtime for K-6th graders.
7. Replace No Tolerance policies with Common Sense policies. If you're sending the valedictorian home for having a swiss army knife, but aren't able to confiscate troublemaker's valium because he's skipping class, and the principal's hands are tied on the difference, Houston we have a problem.
8. More advanced students help teach less advanced students. My senior class spent 45 minutes getting our in house school work done each school day, and spent the rest of the time engaged in large projects or goofing off. We could have taught English, History, Science or Math to 9th-6th graders no problem, or helped some other teacher do it. We would have done it for minimum wage, an easy "A", college level credit, an off campus pass for lunch, or a half day on Fridays. All such rewards for such behavior would have put competent teachers assistants in classrooms where we were needed at a fraction of the cost for the benefit provided.
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