DADvocate

where my fiance lives at the moment used to have fireflies, but encroaching humans have destroyed the environment. so she cant see them anymore.. humans have a lot fo answer for. nature should be enjoyed and celebrated not destroyed
 

In the Smoky's the park rangers regulate access to the firefly viewing site during this time. Presently the crowds are managable.

I agree that people need to respective and preserve nature, and in some cases restore it. There is some hope. In the U.S. there is more forest land now than 100 years ago.
 

All the nice things being said about the environment and how nasty we humans are should be taken with just a tiny bit of salt in hand, since few of us are likely to be willing to give up cars or air conditioning or supermarkets or effective medical treatment or being able to buy what we want when we want, etc., etc. Disingenuity should be guarded against.
 

aup - good point. For 90% of my driving life, I've had 4 cylinder cars or motorcycles. I've chosen forms of recreation that use more human power and less engine power, i.e. kayaking, hiking, bicycling, etc.

But this is mostly due to personal preference with a little environmentalism rolled in. I do know a lot of disingenious "environmentalist" who rant about this and that but drive cars that get poor mileage, have overly big houses, consume much more than needed, etc. They seem to think the government should force corporations, etc. to toe the line but it really begins at home.
 

problem is, i live in a small country, as big as oregon, the united kingdom, and we see more nature being taken away for houses, for people and we dont have air conditioning, i have seen the effects of building section 8 housing in america, and the life they have killed, what with more roads, more houses that are just put up quick and they fall apart as soon as they are..

we have had houses built on contaminated land this is heavy metals, and stuff from a chemical works.. and people are ill. but all for money..
 

I don't want to argue with you and I'm sure your experiences are what you describe, but I think there's a degree to which this is a moot discussion. Billions of people alive today can't live as they would have in the 15th century - nor would the physical conditions of that time be what you would actually prefer. Creative and clever people who know how to think about huge populations need to figure out how to misuse natural resources less while maintaining industrial life as it is now and the huge populations that inhabit all the continents. Reality is what it is, regardless of what be nice, don't you think?
 

but thats the problem, billions of people alive today, 1/3rd of all of humanity is starving to death, you have over 1 billion chinese, 1 billion indians, in a small area geographically speaking, and you are seen hungers, the raping of land, all for food, after this one crop the land is denuded of nourishment and they move on.. like locusts.

there comes a point when the earth isnt able to cope with all the pollution, all the wastes that humans cause.. more animals have gone extinct or are endangered in the last 100 years than ever before.. all due to human over consumption of the planetary resources.. imagine telling you grandkids, you remember seeing a tiger.. and they ask whats a tiger.. or yes we used to have wilderness here, and them looking on disbeleiving.

is the loss of bio diversity, acceptable, if humans destroy the very land that recharges the soul.
 

Mercurior - Your point is well taken. The Earth has limited resources. The human population as grown to the point where in many places there are not enough resources, replenishable or otherwise.

Zero population growth is needed. Unfortunately, the areas where zero population growth is needed the most are the areas where population growth is the greatest.
 

thanks, it just annoys me that most people are only interested in one thing their own lives, and dont think about the future, just imagine a world without tigers, the loss of such a beautiful animal, all for the sake of houses. that could be built smaller, and more efficient, but they are built HUGE, and beyond the needs of them. (McMansions)

technology should help with ecological balance, i say should, but it wont, watch the film silent running, soylent green, and you will see where the world will lead if something isnt done, to teach kids that you dont need a 16 bed house, you dont need the latest gas guzzling vehicles,

this is one of the reasons why i am not having kids, there are many reasons within me why i dont want them, the ecological reasons is a big one..but no doubt other people will have the kids i wont want or have.

thanks dadvocate, zpg should be a goal, or at least a target, i sometimes think this is why the aliens arent here, they see us humans raping the world, and think we are a plague.
 

You sound very sincere, Mercurior. But do you really think it would be better to live in pre-industrial conditions? Better for climate and soil, but much worse for many other reasons. Besides, can anyone live as spartanly and earth-friendly as you suggest? Zero population is a good idea but even if it happened, things keep going on. Besides, most people aren't "raping" the world, they're just going about their daily lives as best they can. By the way, I very much hope you put your energy and intensity into thinking about what can be done to help make things better, rather than just feeling bad about what's gone wrong, because that's the only thing that's going to help. Why spend unnecesary time wishing for a world that simply will never exist.
 

the technology level we have now, should mean we are able to keep as much of the planet as green as we can, with all the technological advances.
all any of us can do is minimise the ecological impact on this planet its the only one we got, so we should look after it, i am talking about the massive consumerisms, like the gas guzzlings suv's, all the extra pollution they cause.

i recycle, i try to minimise my ecological impact, i garden, i sometimes grow my own vegetables, i dont waste food, if it goes moldy i put it in my composter, or if its bread i feed the birds, i would keep chickens if i could but i live in a semi urban area..

i would say the post industrial world, has good points and bad points, as does the pre industrial, i have worked out if i had the money i could make an efficient house, with minimal extra energy costs, insulations, etc etc.. under floor heating, and so on..

this is my goal to become as self sufficient as i can possibly be, to this end i am teaching myself everything about building. to get it right, wind turbine power for the house.

there is a way to be ecologically, and efficient, now with todays technology, all it needs is governemtns to realise that this is the only planet we have.